Paula Macaggi from RETHINK Retail - latest trends in retail
In this Clubhouse conversation Darius speaks with Paula Macaggi from RETHINK Retail on what the company does and who their clients are. Then we get into some of the recent trends in retail including AR, VR, shopping malls, and more and we are joined by some audience members with great questions.
Connect with Paula on Linkedin
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TRANSCRIPT:
Darius 0:01 Welcome to the retail tech podcast. My name is Darius Vasefi and this is where I speak with leaders and entrepreneurs and subject matter experts involved on all aspects of retail and commerce. This interview is being conducted on Clubhouse and recorded and will be published on retail tech podcast.com. Today I'm speaking with Paula Macaggi, from a company called rethink retail. And they work with a lot of retailers helping them do research. And we'll talk about a lot of the other type of services that they provide. And then we're going to talk about some retail trends that Paula is seeing. How are you today, Paula?
Paula 0:46 I'm great. Thanks for having me.
Darius 0:48 Thank you. So Paula is joining me from a beautiful country of Italy.
Paula 0:53 Yes, and Amalfi Coast right now.
Darius 0:56 Wonderful, wonderful. So. So Paula, maybe starting with the brief bio of, you know, maybe your background, and then you know, what, what does rethink retail do?
Paula 1:10 Sure, well, I'm from Brazil, I lived in the US for a while and have been traveling the road for about two and a half years. I know that not much in 2020, for obvious reasons. But I'm still on the roof. And during my traveling, I could experience a lot of the consumer behaviors in different places. And that's my passion. And I have joined rethink retail for eight months ago. And my job is pretty much to connect with retail solution providers. So we can offer like great content, or we can deliver great content to reach the retailers who are our audience. So we think we are a media outlet. We have podcasts, publications, articles, big coverage of retail industry, featuring more insights into it. And our bank goal is pretty much to connect social providers to retailers through very good quality content.
Darius 2:17 So what are some of the types of content that you create?
Paula 2:23 So we have several ways to produce content, it can be our most popular one is podcast. So we draft like specific questions to feature a thought leader and their products. We also have many reports that we can offer, like full reports or media reports. Many reports usually have 2000 words. And it's from like, it's using like a very good trend that is happening to retail space. webinars, what else white papers infographic and this goes on.
Darius 3:01 Okay, and who typically are your clients.
Paula 3:07 So my clients are typically in tech, they usually have good solutions to solve problems in retail. So let's say it can be there, either hide hardware or software or anything that makes the retailer's life easier. What happens pretty much is whenever technology that very innovative technology, the retailer is actually don't know that they need the technology, right? So you have to educate them, you have to show them like why they need that. And that's where we enter we are there to provide what is new in retail and how retailers can benefit from it. So I would say most of our clients are retail tech.
Darius 3:56 Okay. And would it be like startups or more established companies, larger companies?
Paula 4:05 usually more or larger companies, but we do have startups as well. Usually. Like a 2020 meeting raised already at least.
Darius 4:17 Okay. Okay, good. So, in your, in your experience, you know, working at rethink retail, and what did you do before? We think retail?
Paula 4:30 Well, I have always been sales. My last job was as a booking agent for that. That's a funny story though. booking agent for DJs. So I was doing their tours in South North America. They required a lot of traveling. And yeah, that's what I was doing before. Before that I was in tech, specifically doing business development in New York. And before that, just study
Darius 4:59 nice nice booking agent for artists. That sounds very interesting as well,
Paula 5:05 yes. It's very fun. Oh, well, that's another industry that died.
Darius 5:11 Yeah, that's very interesting too. I mean, probably another topic. Music retail, I guess you could call it and how it's changed. And then Oh, you mean with a pandemic? Like as far as like concerts and things like that, right?
Paula 5:30 Yes, yes. festivals, concerts, everything that's not happening for a year already.
Darius 5:36 Right. Right. Okay, well, we'll get into a little bit about talking about the pandemics impact. So what what I'm interested to hear about is some of the interesting trends that you see as you work with clients, and also working on you know, different projects that they have in in retail, you know, of course, pandemic has accelerated some of the trends that were already in the move. So, yeah, just interested to hear what are some of the things that you see that are coming out? That sounds really interesting?
Paula 6:16 Well, we just had, it was like, just a rumor now. Like now apparently, is marketing creates the Apple is working on a VR headset. And I was very skeptical before with the US usage of VR headsets, because nobody has it. And like when they were talking about, oh, let's buy with VR and everything else like that. It's not happening. But as Apple is entering this, I can see that that's probably what is going to escalate in the next year's.
Darius 6:50 Yeah. Isn't that interesting? When when Apple gets into something, they don't go into too loose.
Paula 6:59 Exactly. And I don't know about you, but like, Apple has my soul, right? Like, I have everything from Apple, and I will probably have a VR headset as well. So I look forward to shopping with it.
Darius 7:10 I'm sure it's gonna be really cool looking. Yeah, yeah. So so we are. So VR and AR are some of the topics that are like really important. And they're being experimented with right now. But the adoption for retail is still you know, in the future. Except the AR is actually being more implanted more right now, on websites.
Paula 7:42 Yeah, I was, I joined this very interesting event this week called AI for. So we were covering more artificial intelligence, but there was a lot of AR in the topics. And 70% of the of the users of the buyers, they're already aware of AR right they use it on Instagram, and your name is and like everybody nowadays already have a phone and they can shop using AI with your phone. Right. And before even like we have headphones and VR headsets. I know a lot of brands are already using AR are so I myself just bought a rape Raven glass through their website, and I could see how it looks see me through the camera of my computer is an upgrade. That's
Darius 8:42 very interesting.
Paula 8:44 The future I think this is like the present.
Darius 8:48 Right? Well, I mean, the applications are there. The question is, what's the attribution of having that AR to the actual conversion on the website, so would you have not purchased that that piece of glasses. So there's two possibilities one is that you would probably not even purchase it. The other one is that you would purchase it and then you would return it
Paula 9:15 can both have the chance of me returning it without trying new car. It's bigger than right they'd like not trying at all. So I think AR provides you a higher confidence when buying a product. And for example, Estee Lauder yesterday was mentioning that during the pandemic these top selling makeup because who is buying makeup just their home right? And AR has helped them a lot because you can try the makeup on your computer. And that was the first thing I did after I heard I forgot her name, saying that and I tried Like several colors of lipstick, in my computer camera, you know. So I think that drives more conversion for sure.
Darius 10:09 Yes, I agree. I think AR is definitely a really useful tool for, for that, you know, online. So. And yeah, VR is probably going to be further down, we'll probably have to wait until Apple to really get to release their headset to really see the mass adoption, probably or a higher degree of adoption.
Paula 10:33 I agree. But I was thinking that VR will probably become a thing, if that will become a thing in the next like, 20 years. But now, I already think it's like next year, you know, I think like companies, retailers should be investing in it right now. And before I were talking, I was doing some research, and I saw the Price Waterhouse Coopers said in 2030, that there'll be like a GP DDP in VR of 184 billion. So it's definitely an industry that is growing.
Darius 11:08 Yeah, how would what's the what's required for VR to actually work in a retail store, you would have to have like a 3d camera go and map the entire store first, or you'd have a drone in the store or flying around? controlled by customers?
Paula 11:27 That's a very interesting question. I'd love to maybe there's this company, maybe they should invite them to talk one day, yeah. In the Ours is a Italian company. And I spoke to them at a grocery shop shop talk that happened like a couple of weeks ago. And they were showing me this feature that you put this headset VR headset on, and you actually enter into the supermarket, and you can shop right there, you can see the products and everything in your living room. So imagine that from your living room is that going to the supermarket, which I think is super cool, because I hate going to the supermarket, you can just put your heads, your, your, your headset, shop it and they deliver in your house. And I have actually the experience of walking through the aisles. But I mean,
Darius 12:17 that's the side of the retail store itself is very interesting for me, because you need to either have somebody pick. So we do this right now with one of our products called visual commerce, which is like live stream shopping, but it's a human being on the other side and live video. So you can tell the person, I want that bunch of letters, I want that one, you know, you tell them exactly which one you want. And they can like pick the one that you want, or the apples that you want to pick, you know, but with VR, and on the other side if there is no human, so that's interesting. Yeah, definitely something to look into. So,
Paula 12:59 so yeah, it's like even you can even have this to the human on the other side, showing you around, where you're both in different places. It's kind of scary. I don't know if you think that, but I think it's super interesting.
Darius 13:14 It is interesting. I mean, I it probably works more with like these, these automated, like, you know, I want to call it like kiosk things that you can pick the item and it'll just take it for you. As opposed to a typical grocery store, where the shelves are like full of stuff and you know, you need somebody or something to go and pick what you want in that case.
Paula 13:40 Yeah, completely. I don't like I really wish I knew the tech behind it, how it works, how, how they're gonna make him more appealing. But before we have the VR, we already have the AR and like you can literally, if I go by a person line, I can see 360 I can see inside. And with VR, I can technically touch it, but not really. And see all the sides. I'm excited, maybe next year.
Darius 14:15 Yeah, I think I think you know, it's good that you know what I mean? Like you said Apple getting into it is definitely going to start the acceleration of this thing. So one of the things that I've been thinking about and actually you know if anybody wants to join, will happy to have you up in the conversation, feel free to raise your hand. Have you seen anything related to holographic images being used.
Paula 14:43 So that's the other news that is circling around apple. They, the rumors are that you're going to have a 3d holographic vision with this VR headset.
Darius 15:00 Well, then that would be amazing.
Paula 15:03 Is that clear? I think I think like the same dependency that we have now with our smartphones, we're gonna have with maybe VR headsets, or either like smart glasses, I don't know how far we are from that being like a doable thing. But definitely something that's going to happen very soon. There's also this other company in Germany called pyramyd. And they are starting doing some holographics as well. I don't know exactly how to use that in commerce, because it doesn't depend on any device, on your on your face. But there's something that I would definitely follow.
Darius 15:50 Yeah, that's another very interesting technology. So what about something else? What do you think about the concept of the Amazon go store? Do you think that's like gonna take off?
Paula 16:06 You mean like, is cashierless? pick and go?
Darius 16:12 Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 16:14 Yes, I think that's absolutely a trend that is happening right now. And there's this company called ifI, they just, they just made that like, exactly the solution you pick from the shells, and leave the store. It was like the biggest grocer in Shanghai, in China. And you can do that in like a larger sport. And that's amazing. And what is interesting is that before, I don't know, how is Amazon technology, but I find technology before everything was also using the shelves to calculate the weight and what you're picking up. I find solutions just with cameras. And I think is amazing. They use AI to see what you're picking up. So the cameras learn what you're picking up and what you're taking off. as well. I think I can't wait to use it.
Unknown Speaker 17:22 Yeah, that's, that's something else. And I think Amazon is actually opening up more of its stores. And I'm just trying to like, imagine in the future, like what would be the, the product experience when you go to the stores? So I think we're starting from like convenience stores, right? Like, where sandwiches and drinks and things like that you just walk in and walk out? Do you see something like this being applicable to other types, like apparel stores?
Unknown Speaker 17:59 I do. I was India's a AI for events that I was attending this week, they were they were talking about this. Also, the same structure is like a camera that is going to tell you what the consumer is trying what the consumer is like taking to the fitting room. And there's even a back to this story. So they know the pattern of the consumption. And I think this is phenomenal. Because if you have the information that 100 people took this pair of pants, to the fitting room, and 99 gave it back, it's already like a good way to know that that product isn't working, you know, it's attracting the consumer. But it's not working the final sale so you have extra data that you can use, and using this, this solution to just pick it up and leave. It's just like a one step further. You know,
Unknown Speaker 18:59 right? It's
Unknown Speaker 18:59 totally doable.
Unknown Speaker 19:01 Yeah. Yeah, that's another interesting, you know, thought is that how are these I mean, it's just people's familiarity and you know, the ability to actually be able to carry the product out by yourself. So, I mean, probably not applicable to large items like furniture, at least right now.
Unknown Speaker 19:24 Or anything is hard or jewelry
Unknown Speaker 19:25 for example, jewelry would be another unlikely usage At this rate, high high end jewelry, that would be kind of interesting. So so something else that we probably don't think maybe as much is not in the interview is like a back end inventory management and supply chain. You know, I think it's an it's been in the news that you know, just auto manufacturers are having a hard time getting chips from, you know, chip manufacturers and And that just goes into one form of retail. But then, you know, what are some of the things and trends that you see on inventory management that are interesting for you?
Unknown Speaker 20:15 Well, that's tricky because even target management, it's a very important issue that our retailers have to deal with. And especially now that like this last Black Friday was a big example of how like, every everybody's still lost. And then a clip of solutions, also camera basis that it's, it's being interesting. I saw like some robots that do it automatically. But I don't know further. Honestly, it's just something that like, what I what I live in grocer's, like is that those robots? I don't know if you saw Cindy robot robotics, do you know this company?
Unknown Speaker 21:05 Yes.
Unknown Speaker 21:06 So yeah, they have like a super cool robot that walks around. And that's super cool. Like that actually gives a better customer experience. Because there are other solutions that use just camera, for example, to track inventory, in store, in grocery shops. But these ones like I literally saw, there's none of that in Brazil. And I literally saw that on my Instagram 100 times of people that travel and see it and take a picture in posted. So it's already like, a good marketing asset as well. Not only that, sorry.
Unknown Speaker 21:45 Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting, you know, I mean, definitely, that it's that initial surprise factor when people see the robot in the store. So
Unknown Speaker 21:59 I don't know about you, but I want to play with it.
Unknown Speaker 22:04 I want to I want to tell it to do things for me, not for somebody on in their home over there. Like I wanna, I want him to tell me where I can find because they have like,
Unknown Speaker 22:15 these robots, they have the eyes, they can like, it's just like, at some point, you're gonna talk to you as well. I think it's super cool.
Unknown Speaker 22:24 Yeah, like one of the things that I always have a problem, I go to like, next CVS, and I'm looking for something. And I have to spend like, 20 minutes looking for it. And eventually, I can't find it. And I have to go find somebody to tell me, that's like the discovery in the store is really important. Now, I think the, the old philosophy was that in the process of you looking for something else, you're see other things that you're going to pick up. But it's a really bad customer experience, in my opinion.
Unknown Speaker 23:00 For me, as well, because I am not a person that likes to go to a store and like, Look everything around, I'm very objective, you know, I want to like a black dress. And when I go get a black dress, or if I want to get that specific type of rice. That's what I want. And then like, I go fast and come back. And if I have to look for that's already like something that is giving me an please, Adam, please in time, you know,
Unknown Speaker 23:27 yeah, here's another idea for like, for, like apparel, is you want to go to, let's say, I don't know, forever 21 or what you know, another store, and you're looking for a black dress. So you send a message to the store and say I'm looking for a black dress for this occasion. And when you get to the store, they've already picked five options for you to check in one area.
Unknown Speaker 23:58 Oh, wow.
Unknown Speaker 24:03 No, I just came up with it. From what you told me,
Unknown Speaker 24:07 I think we just have to just like start right now.
Unknown Speaker 24:13 Yeah, I think it's, you know, that could be interesting. We already
Unknown Speaker 24:17 have to buy you personas. There isn't Paula?
Unknown Speaker 24:20 Yeah, no. I mean, I'm I. So this is I'm thinking like how, you know, we all talk about experience in the store. Like this is the big buzzword, right? Everybody says experience is the future of retail. Right?
Unknown Speaker 24:36 Yes, because that's the only thing that is left to for you right to go to the store. Or you can do everything online.
Unknown Speaker 24:42 Yeah, yeah. So it's just you know, the word experience by itself is like really interesting. But what exactly implementing something that is a major difference for the customer is what really matters, right? You can't just say, you know, instead of, you know, I don't know, just something that we do already, we're just going to do something a little bit better. It has to be something different if you want to get people to go to the store. So this is one of the ways is to make it easy for people to find things when they go to the store.
Unknown Speaker 25:20 Oh, for sure. And all. We had an interview Recently, there was very interesting. And Jeremy, the our guest said that, as far as I actually becoming, like, how many times have you gone to a store saw a product and bought it online after, you know, the store is becoming more of a customer experience. So it's more like the best way for you to engage your clients right there with you. And maybe they'll buy online, but it's a very good brand acid that you could work on, you know.
Unknown Speaker 25:58 Yeah. So actually just to reset to I'm talking with Paula Mukherjee of rethink retail, we're talking about different things in retail. Actually, I saw Connie, raise her hand, I admitted you are, you know, to come up, but it's not bringing you up. This is a bit of a bug and I'm clubhouse. So what I've heard is that if you leave the room and come back, it may actually bring you up or I'm not sure I'm trying to bring you up. It's not working. So if anybody else wants to join the conversation, I think we just came up with an idea for a new startup. Hey, there you are, Connie.
Unknown Speaker 26:42 Thank you. Good morning. Good
Unknown Speaker 26:43 morning. How are you?
Unknown Speaker 26:44 I enjoyed your conversation so far, I do have a question for you about technology and apparel retail. I recently was doing a mall visit and I came across a pop up called fit match. And it was in I'm in Southern California was at Glendale. And I went in and what they did is they did a body scan,
Unknown Speaker 27:13 and then matched my body scan to companies where my fit. And recommended styles for my fit
Unknown Speaker 27:25 was an interesting experience. And I just did it for fun. My personal experience was that the companies that are participating are quite limited. So where the body scan showed I would have the best fit, probably not places I would shop. There were a number of places that are more junior, like forever 21, etc, that I my body shape probably didn't work or match. But I'm just wondering if you had heard about that or seen it, I could see a few things, a few brands like denim brand, which is where I came from in my previous life, where that would be such a great tool going into the store to size up the customer. But it was the first time I'd seen it. So I'm wondering if anyone else says thank you.
Unknown Speaker 28:16 Great question. Paula, do you have any thoughts on that?
Unknown Speaker 28:21 Well, I think this is a great solution for a start up.
Unknown Speaker 28:27 Yes.
Unknown Speaker 28:29 Your body types to give you exactly what you want. What can fit you. I think this solution is great. I wish I had that. So I could see like where it was held to I think the solution is good. They just don't have enough. Brands signed up for it. Right. Like I think they should just extend it. They're probably like this small company. Dude, have you researched about them? Yeah, and I should, I should just dig him because I think you're right. It's just the number of brands participating clearly, it doesn't cost anything to do the scan, and they have it all set up to do it. And then you can even update it at home later. Because all your measurement points are in. But I think that once it's bigger, I came from the denim industry where we had a massive high return rate on online orders of denim. And often customers would ordered two pairs because they wanted to try both on so the return rate was driven by that as well. So I think it's it's very interesting. And last I'll say in my same visit, you were just mentioning Amazon and you know the Amazon ghost stores. I saw another pop up at that mall and it was by Rite Aid. drugstore and they it wasn't open To experience, they were either just setting up but it was a rite aid go store. So I think that is executed in it as well in other brands that probably would fit it in their bigger models if they wanted to maximize maybe store labor or store experience, etc. I thought that it's the first time I'd seen them participate in something like that. So I wanted to share that.
Unknown Speaker 30:28 Yeah, that's, that's an interesting one to
Unknown Speaker 30:31 go ahead, Paula.
Unknown Speaker 30:32 Yeah, I think like for in order to scale it to more stores and bigger stores. That's what they have to do. They have to start showing that to people. So people get used to it until the consumers, the customers can do it, you know?
Unknown Speaker 30:52 So talking about the fit, match the body scan pop up, what what would it make? What would make it like really appealing and something that you would use repeatedly? If you would do that, like Connie? Or Paula? Is it really like if they really had a really large selection? Would it make? Would that make it so that like you would use this? Try probably on all purchases? apparel? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 31:19 that's, that's a good question. And you know, I'm not,
Unknown Speaker 31:24 I'm not the first to adapt and new technology, I was, you know, put my hand up there. So for me to even try it was with, partly because I continue to hear your guy's discussions on club posts about where technology's moving, can use the app on a regular basis, I think it would be very cool if I could have those measurements on my phone. And then maybe there's a QR code at a store, or now make it up. But maybe I go into American Eagle or Levi's or, again, I'm going to my comfort zone of denim, but you go into a store where fits important, or even a Nordstrom that carries hundreds of brands. And you have a QR code where you can scan and it matches up to your fit type. And then it might tell you right in the store where to go, I heard you say, Oh, I might go to forever 21 and get black dresses, you know, where the five black dresses like maybe it's even infused into loyalty somehow that they can find the five black dresses with the best fit for you. But something that I'm in charge of my device, and I choose to use it? Maybe that's how I would, I would probably adopt it more. And it would sure make shopping faster, and probably a little more fun than trying on different brands that have different fits and having to change sizes, etc. Or maybe as a sales associate, too. That's my thoughts. Thank you. Yeah, well, I think like the fact that they're doing that for free for you. They're already collecting our data, right? So they can design clothes, more similar to your body type. If they have a number of people that has like the same type, for example, I would use it to shop online. So yes, if I had access to this data, and I just give to the store, like hey, this is my body type. And the website already says like, Oh, this is like what is good for you. That'd be wonderful for me. But yeah, as Corey said, If I had control over this data.
Unknown Speaker 33:37 So So here's our second startup idea today, follow something called body identity. So right now you have an identity online, right? What if you had a body identity and retailers could you could send it to a retailer, and they would fit items for you to your body identity? How crazy or interesting would that be?
Unknown Speaker 34:05 For sure. And there is for that are solutions that I have seen already that they're doing that for shoes. So you go you have your your feet skinned, and you can send it to new balances one of your clients, you send this data to new balance and they know exactly what is going to be comfortable for you. They can even tailor that for you. So imagine if you can do that with clothes and everything else.
Unknown Speaker 34:30 I think Yeah, I think so there's two sides to it. One is that in the in the individual, like, you know, tools or retailers may do this for you. But what would be interesting for me as a consumer is I actually own that myself, and I share it with who I want. And I keep it updated.
Unknown Speaker 34:54 Yeah, I think that's the future to like when we started like from now on. I think we're going to start owning our own data. And we're going to choose to, to share with whoever. That's what the blockchain technology is promising. I don't know what each level is. I'm not a blockchain nerd, but I don't know where it's which level they are already in it. But assuming that that's where we're going to have, that's a perfect business plan. I did hear on a on a webcast recently, and it was the founder of whoop, Kristin Holmes, and I loved what she said, data and privacy, it should improve your life not invaded. And I'm, I'm personally very private about my data. So again, I was shocked to that I would actually do it. But there it was. But I want to control and if it can, if a tool can give me a more bespoke experience, or a curated experience, that's going to show me styles based on my fit all the more to it, because that's making my life better.
Unknown Speaker 36:08 versus using my data
Unknown Speaker 36:09 for another purpose. So
Unknown Speaker 36:13 thanks, thank you for the time to share on this. And who I know you're below. But I just got your book yesterday. And I've already bookmarked about 10 different sections that I'm going to drill down on today. But, you know, for anyone who has to execute this new technology across a broad group of people, it's definitely an excellent tool. So, so thanks to you all. And I'll just step down now. Thank
Unknown Speaker 36:40 you. Thanks, Connie. And Hi, Andrew, welcome.
Unknown Speaker 36:45 Thank you very much, and our Connie, shucks, thank you so much for the the and apparently anyway unpaid for plug
Unknown Speaker 36:51 I appreciate that
Unknown Speaker 36:52 maybe I
Unknown Speaker 36:54 Well, now that she mentioned is such a great conversation for a ton
Unknown Speaker 36:57 of reasons, I've been in a really noisy environment. Otherwise, I would have loved to have jumped up any earlier, you guys are on fire today, with some of your startup ideas. my two cents on all of them so far is I think there are so many great ideas that are solving kind of individual things that individual companies are running out. And I'm going to use like streaming services as an example here. They're all awesome, and they've all got really great content. And I'm left as a consumer kind of getting FOMO because I've got to choose which ones I want. And I just wish someone would aggregate it. And you know, we'll eventually go full circle, I think and back to a cable kind of model eventually. But these kinds of value adds for a consumer, I put in the same bucket, I sit there and go, you know, this incredibly personal thing for a lot of people, you know, my measurements is something that, you know, if it adds value to me, and I can keep it and own it, I think is fabulous. And then you know, having that subscription point where brands kind of buy into it on a more consistent level. So I only have to do it one thing, you know, in the end, I have to share my data with one person, but it provides value with me across a number of different brands, I think that's where that unlock will come with that kind of technology. Because it's been around for a while I remember, three or four years ago, getting my buddy measurements taken at the Intel booth of the Consumer Electronics Show is in there. I think it's called real sense ID or something similar. So the technology is there. No one's managed to crack I think the business case and the use case, the idea of how we add value to a business, but also a consumer. But I think kind of your idea of kind of holding on to it yourself and owning it. And then being able to share it with who you want. darious who's your build, I believe, I think is the smart way to do it.
Unknown Speaker 38:38 Thank you. Yeah, that sounds actually I mean, I've been thinking about identity in general, not even like the body identity, and the fact that we need to own our identity, and let whoever we want give permission to use it for a limited time. I think that's really the future of identity for consumers. And you know, actually eventually, perhaps even making money from it, right? So we're talking about, you know, Facebook, using our data to make money, why shouldn't we talk? You know, do that so that I think this is probably something that there will be some I mean, hopefully there will be some some applications to do that.
Unknown Speaker 39:26 I remember what am I agree with me what my favorite kind of examples or or descriptions of the Facebook business model is like if you if you're getting a whole bunch of value when you're not paying anything, then you're the value. And you know that the idea of how do we shift a world where we've already given most of our lives out to people into something that's a lot more Pro, I think is going to be something that people are going to be demanding and I'm excited by what the market then does with that as soon as that becomes a demand. You'll see these startups popping up, left, right and center that kind of help you help To get that, you know, and achieve that I'm excited to see what the market does with it.